TBU#13 Play your own game, Essentialists! A deep dive into PLAY, inspired by Essentialism by Greg McKeown

Episode 13 October 25, 2022 00:36:15
TBU#13 Play your own game, Essentialists! A deep dive into PLAY, inspired by Essentialism by Greg McKeown
Two Booked Up
TBU#13 Play your own game, Essentialists! A deep dive into PLAY, inspired by Essentialism by Greg McKeown

Oct 25 2022 | 00:36:15


Hosted By

Rowena Mabbott Shelley Tonkin Smith

Show Notes

Does an Essentialist really play around? That seems a little frivolous!

Play is in fact a major part of living life as an Essentialist, as you’ll learn in this episode of Two Booked Up.

Rowena and Shelley are continuing their discussion of Essentialism; The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown, and doing a deep dive into one of the ideas that comes up in Chapter 7of the book: the importance of Play in the Essentialist life. 

As The Playful Momprenueur, Shelley has done a lot of research into the concept of play and has made it her mission to be more playful in life and business. In her conversation with Rowena, she reflects on the fact that an Essentialist spends a lot of time exploring — and play is the perfect way to explore.

The bookworms review the properties of Play, as outlined by Stuart Brown in his book Play. They talk about why play is so beneficial, even for us serious adults ;). And they share real life examples of how you can incorporate play into your daily life and into your business or career.

Most of the examples will be simple to implement and pragmatically playful. Other examples involve Shelley acting like a Disney villain! Feel free to choose how silly you’d like your version of play to be…


The Playful Momprenueur Podcast

The Playful Mompreneur Episode 13: A review of the book Play by Stuart Brown

Play: How it Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul by Stuart Brown

Connect with Helen Joy Butler on Instagram (solo retreats, space clearing, soul plan readings, and more)

Rowena’s Design Your Season Self-Guided Workshop + Workbook

Shelley’s blog posts on experimentation — why and how.

Episode 1 of The Playful Mompreneur in which Cruelette de Smithers interviews Shelley

Connect with us:

Find us online at twobookedup.com

Connect with Rowena @rowenamabbott on IG and at rowenamabbott.com.

Connect with Shelley @shelleysmithcreative on IG and @ShelleyTSmith on Twitter. Her copywriting business is at shelleysmithcreative.com and her writing and other musings are at shelleytonkinsmith.com.

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Hi, you're listening to Two Booked Up a podcast about business and personal development books and the conversations they ignite. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith. I'm a copywriter business owner and homeschooling mom to two primary school boys. [00:00:19] And I'm Rowena Mabbott. I'm also a business owner, a career and life confidence coach, and a mom to two high school boys. We're both bookworms. And on the two booked up podcast, we profile business and personal development books, but we simply cannot stop the conversation there. Instead we apply what these books teach to our daily lives and the running of our business. [00:00:42] At the moment we are discussing Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown. In the previous two episodes, we gave an overview of the book and then reflected on how it has influenced our lives. Today we are diving deeper into one of the chapters and extending the discussion. [00:01:01] It's a topic that I know is very dear to Shelly's heart. Isn't it. Shelly. [00:01:05] Oh, yes. So we are diving into chapter seven, which happens to be my favorite number and the chapter is all about play. So the idea of playfulness is something that I started researching when I started homeschooling nearly three years ago. And the more I learned about the benefits of play, the more I started realizing, well, this is not just something for kids. [00:01:28] This is also something for us as adults too. And I find that particularly as a mompreneur, this attitude of playfulness and a Playful mindset is very helpful. And in fact, essential as an overarching principle, so I was delighted to see that there was this whole chapter about play in Essentialism. [00:01:50] Absolutely. And in case you don't know, Shelley is in fact the Playful Mompreneur and has another podcast by that name. So you can be assured of getting some fabulous insights by someone who actually lives and breathes play. [00:02:05] So at first glance play doesn't seem very essential. So Shelley, why do you think Greg McKeown has included play as an essentialist principle? [00:02:14] Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, I was actually quite surprised I was delighted, but I was quite surprised to see play listed as an essentialist principle, Yeah. If play does seem like something frivolous, doesn't it, it seems like a very non-essential activity. [00:02:30] It's like, okay, once you've done all your work, then you can have time for play. And I think that's often how we're brought up. It's like you do all the productive stuff, all the important stuff. But in fact play is not frivolous. [00:02:43] It's the exact opposite. It's something we have to do as adults it's and as essentialists, it's something that unlocks this, part of our brain that we actually can't access if we're just grinding it away and really, trying to be over productive. [00:03:01] And I love that. But before we get any deeper, it really begs the question. Why play? Why is play important for an essentialist? But even more broadly, why is play important in our adult lives? [00:03:16] So for an essentialist, and this was like quite an aha moment for me in the book, an essentialist spends a lot of time exploring, you know, so. Greg McKeown talks about an essentialist being very focused on one thing. And directing their energy in one direction. But in order to find what is that direction? [00:03:37] What is that most important direction that I want to be spending all my time on? You going to need to spend a good amount of time in exploration and play really is that perfect way to explore, to try things out. And then as you say, like you ask the question, why play? Um, there's been so many, researchers who've dived into the subject that I've discovered. [00:04:00] One of them is Stuart Brown and he wrote the book literally called Play. And, Greg McEwen quotes him in Essentialism where Stuart Brown says, "nothing fires up the brain like play." So there's like this like energy in play, firing up your brain. And as I say, parts of your brain that you probably can't access when you're, in this very rational, logical mode. And as play does that, it helps us to be more flexible. It helps us to be more creative. And through a global pandemic and all, everything that's resulted from that we have had to be flexible. We have had to be more creative, but there's even a lot of studies into, how play plays an important survival role in animals like they play and they experiment. And in doing that, they learn survival skills and what to do and what not to do and obviously that extends into the human world as well as the animal kingdom. [00:05:02] I love that Shelly. And I think that's important for our kids but for adults as well. I think it's that idea that being Playful helps us be flexible and creative, but it's also something that we have, perhaps not, we're not as aware of the need for it, which is why you've talked about the why. [00:05:18] But now I want us to just pivot a little bit and look more at what, what is play? And most importantly, what could play look like for us as adults? [00:05:29] Yeah, good question. Cuz I think when we start looking at play, we are like, okay, but I'm, I'm not gonna kind of set myself up a little Montessori, set up in my office or, I don't really feel like I want to be silly or childish even. So let me talk to you about the properties of play that Stuart Brown identifies in his book Play. [00:05:49] And I'll link to this book in the show notes, if anyone wants to dive deeper into this. And the properties of play that he's identified. Is that play is an apparently purposeless activity. So it's something that's done for its own sake. So there's no like defined outcome, but rather you play and then you, you maybe get to an outcome, but that's nothing that you've determined ahead of time. [00:06:14] It's an it's a byproduct rather than the destination. [00:06:17] Yes. Then it's play is voluntary. So I'm telling you, I'm encouraging you to play, but. Listeners, you have gotta decide to play. You have gotta volunteer to play somebody can't come to you and say, oh, we gotta do this new corporate strategy of play. [00:06:33] Um, it kind of then doesn't make it Playful [00:06:36] Yep. We've all been there. People we've all been there. [00:06:40] And then the thing is so it's voluntary, but the third, property of play is that there is an inherent attraction. So you don't actually need someone to tell you to do it, and you can picture your kids here. They just are drawn to the Lego or they are drawn to a particular, they might be even drawn to like, make a toy out of a, like with my kids the other day [00:07:01] bit of card board. [00:07:02] Yes. And a plastic bottle, and then they put, put stones in it. So there's, there's this inherent draw, this inherent attraction to the activity of play. The fourth property is that when you're playing, you have freedom from time. So you're not on a deadline. [00:07:19] You've got this like freedom. From the time around you and you can often get lost in the activity that you're doing when you're playing. And then the fifth one. And I think this is where as adults we come to play and we think, oh, this feels so embarrassing. Um, but when you're playing, you have a diminished consciousness of yourself. So you actually arrive in there and you're getting so wrapped up and lost that your ego gets set aside. So for those of us who, who suffer with imposter syndrome and all of these kinds of things that come up for us in our business, this is a perfect antidote because that you have this diminished sense of consciousness of self. [00:08:03] So you're not feeling self-conscious and you're just wrapped up in the activity of play. And then the sixth, property of play is that there's a lot of improvisational potential. So a lot of opportunity to make things up as you go along. And I think that comes up with a journey kind of metaphor and the process of it. [00:08:25] And, and then finally, the last and seventh property of play is that there's a continuation desire. [00:08:31] You actually really love doing it. So you wanna continue. So you've got this freedom from time, but at the same time, you actually wanna continue this Playful activity and so inherently, you want to do more of it. And so that's why I love this idea of tapping into play, to do the more productive things in our lives and to do the more essentialist things in our lives. [00:08:55] But there's this. Power and this energy, behind play. So yeah, I'll put the link to that book in the show notes. And you can also go and listen to my episode, 13 of the Playful Mompreneur podcast. [00:09:08] That is where I've kind of done a bit of a review on Play by Stuart Brown. So if you want to learn more about it there, you can do that. [00:09:16] So, Shelly, I was just listening to the seven different, properties of play that you've outlined. And what I was really hearing is the idea that play has a lot of flow to it that it's natural and it's fun, but at the same time, there's something kind of otherworldly, maybe even a bit magical to it. [00:09:33] Yes. I love that idea of, of magic in play. There is something magical, and this idea of flow is, something that I've also aspired to just find flow in my work and in all the other things that I do outside of work as well. And, you find that magic in play, and Essentialism, McKeown references the work of, [00:09:56] Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi [00:09:58] um, but he is, I see him coming up a lot in, studies [00:10:02] about [00:10:03] he's the expert. [00:10:04] the father of flow [00:10:06] for sure. He is. [00:10:07] He's really, as you say, he's the expert and he studied this idea of flow and the idea of flow and the idea of play are very closely linked to each other. And you heard all those properties of play. You heard how you, you get lost in time. There is this flow. So if you are looking. For more flow in your day, and you're looking for this idea of, effortlessness. [00:10:34] I think tapping into the idea of play and tapping into the idea of flow is really helpful. And unfortunately, it's, it's can feel a little counterintuitive sometimes because school and the workplace often do see play as trivial as a waste of time. And as I said, at the beginning, it was kind of like do your work and then you can go and play. [00:10:55] But I, I caution against that, of. Actually you are losing out on so much. If you you're forcing yourself to work. I was just thinking about my, um, practicing piano and I'm getting to the part of the course now where I'm practicing sight reading and I've never been a good sight reader. So I'm working on the site reading and I've been working on very simple piece, but I could not get through without making a mistake. And I was like, practice Shelly practice. Just keep going, keep going, keep going. [00:11:25] And then, um, I had the classic case of a message came through on my phone. And, you know, usually that's an interruption, but actually that little interruption was really good cuz I just replied to the message. And then I came back and just that little break of time came back, played it. No, no mistakes at all. [00:11:45] And I thought, Hmm, isn't that interesting. Sometimes you just need a step back. And I think that's a play gives you, gives you that step back. It gives you that perspective that you can return back to your work in this flow. And sometimes I think we try to force flow. You can't force a river to flow, you know, a river just flows. [00:12:06] And I think. If we can allow ourselves a little bit of play, we can be a lot more productive. You are gonna feel weird because we have been conditioned not to play. We have been conditioned to go. No, no, no work, work, work, but, play is definitely something that is not trivial. [00:12:25] That's awesome Shelley, cuz you mentioned about school and I think about, you know, they have a recess break or like a morning tea break, but they also often have some playtime. And so in that sense, it's a scheduled break. But what I'm hearing is there's an opportunity for us as adults to build in some more space in our day or our week for some playtime. And so I think we are losing a lot when we think of play as frivolous or useless. [00:12:51] So instead if we think about play as something that is good for us, and I was really struck with this because I've been working, I work with a lot of mothers. And what's been coming up within my friend and client group is that we often don't feel like we have time to play. [00:13:06] And play in this sense is often seen as leisure activity, like time for us time for, to do is something that we love. But play is also a perfect way for us, particularly us mums to disconnect from all the chores that we have to do and the jobs that masquerade as leisure activities. So what I'm suggesting is that maybe this is an opportunity for us to truly embrace leisure or play that actually restores us and helps us feel great, like this idea of a play break in our days, so that we can then come back with greater creativity and greater insights to whatever work we are doing. [00:13:42] Now, along these lines in Essentialism, Greg makes a pretty telling case for embracing this Playful attitude. So, Shelly, can you tell us a little bit more about that? [00:13:52] Yeah, absolutely. [00:13:53] So Greg McKeown outlines these three benefits of play for the Essentialist. And so he says that play broadens the range of options available to use. So there's this like expansion, and you, when you're playing you then have so many different options to choose from that you won't ever feel like, oh, maybe, maybe I chose the wrong thing or maybe I didn't see that, or I wish I'd known that. [00:14:18] So you're expanding that range of options. And you know what I'm finding so interesting in all my reading that I do about play and homeschooling, there are so many Einstein quotes that come up. Einstein was like the biggest, most playful there was. [00:14:32] Very Playful. Yeah. I've seen that too. [00:14:35] Amazing a great pattern to see. So you can make amazing discoveries if you're Playful. [00:14:42] And then, in Essentialism, Greg McKeown says that play is an antidote to stress. So stress is the enemy of productivity and creativity. And so you want to play so that you don't feel stressed about all of these burdens, um, and if burdens responsibilities, you know, whatever you wanna call them. Um, but I think when you're starting to feel stressed, when you're starting to feel up in your head, that's a great time for a play break. [00:15:10] That's a great time to go and do something, something different. And I wanna talk a little bit about actual ways to play and give people some ideas in a minute. But I just wanna bring it back to Essentialism again. [00:15:22] And so the third benefit that he says is that play actually has a positive effect on executive function. [00:15:29] And this for me, I was like, Ooh, executive function. This is so juicy and interesting because it's something that I've dealt with in homeschooling of helping my kids with their executive function. And executive function is just all the logical things that we do. So like being able to schedule, plan, delegates, analyze all these very, what you would think are very logical things. [00:15:54] Play has a very positive effect on all of those very logical things. And. You wouldn't think that you would think that play is very, uncontrolled and, all this freedom, but with all, all that freedom and with all of that play, your executive function skills actually improve and, has such a positive effect on it. [00:16:16] So that's, some of the benefits of play. [00:16:19] That's fabulous. And I love that one about executive function. I remember reading it, but it's now that you mention it, I'm like, yeah, that is kind of phenomenal, isn't it? That playing actually helps that function. And I think that's relevant for all of us, whether we are looking at homeschooling and teaching our kids or whether we are looking it in, in our own business or in our own career as well. [00:16:38] There are lots of benefits to play that are beyond just perhaps relaxation. So clearly I am convinced on the benefits of play Shelley, but I'm wondering, and I'm sure our listeners are too. As you mentioned, what does play look like when it's at the office and what does play look like as adults? [00:16:58] Yeah. So I think people are afraid of play to a certain extent because it may make them look or feel silly, um, or take them too far out of their comfort zones. And I think when we think of like a Playful office, we think of like, you know, maybe the Googles of the world where they've got like sleep pods and, pool tables and table tennis tables and video games and all the rest of it, which is cool. [00:17:21] And I saw in Essentialism, they mentioned an example of a company that's has an improv class and stand-up comedy at, at the company. So it's kind of bringing in these kind of [00:17:33] For me, that would be so, so terrifying and way outta my comfort zone. [00:17:38] Yeah. I know. So that's why I think you don't have to go like full playground style play. You know, this can look a little bit more adult, but it's, it's all about, I think, releasing this tightness and tenseness that we have on this kind of let's call it logical productivity sides of our brains. [00:17:56] So it's just releasing that side of things. So some examples for me, Would be just be change app the way you work. Okay. So Ro, I know you do a lot of blog posts, and I know one of the things that you do is you, you talk those blog posts out into your phone and you get the kind of bare bones of the blog post, and then you will go and refine it with writing. [00:18:17] So sometimes. This counts for me, I can get very up in my head when it comes to writing, because I see myself as a copywriter. So change it up and talk it out or do a video or vice versa. [00:18:29] If you're kind of used to doing, more video kind of work or audio kind of work, change it up and do some writing. If you, usually, type in on the computer, why not get yourself a blank notebook and either hand write it out or paint it out or, you know, go, go use some different mediums, and brainstorm that way. [00:18:49] Like, it's all about pattern breaking and, changing up the way you are thinking and doing things. So nobody even has to see you. You can just change up the way you working and change up your process a little bit. So that's a simple thing that I think everyone can do. [00:19:05] For sure. Can I add one in there? Because one of the things I used to get people to do back in my corporate days, is when we'd get stuck when we were talking things through is if you stand up and just walk backwards. [00:19:16] So simple, the simple act of walking backwards around your office, around your house, or just no one needs to really see you, but just taking a few step backwards means your brain has had to basically reconnect and concentrate on something else. And that can be enough to break the cycle or break the stale mate. [00:19:35] And then you come back and you've got a whole new idea. So Shelly, what else do people do? [00:19:39] Okay. Let's, let's talk about taking up a hobby outside of work. I love this idea of doing something that you're not gonna monetize. Cuz I think us entrepreneurs, we always tempted to monetize everything that we do. So take up a hobby, just something that you're going to enjoy. [00:19:55] Um, so for me it has been piano and I also signed up for a watercolor course recently, one of the big benefits of homeschooling is that you can do all of this kind of stuff and just call it homeschooling. But it's also for me and my curiosity and my playfulness. Take up a hobby that you're going to put efforts into, but there's no outcome that you're just doing for the fun of it. [00:20:16] So something that is going to unlock those parts of your brain, that are kind of line dormant when you're doing your real job. And also you mentioned it in the beginning of something that's restorative to you. So if it's a little too demanding or you get in a bit perfectionist about it. [00:20:33] Maybe you wanna, check either the way you are doing that hobby or maybe it's not the right hobby for you. [00:20:38] Like for my husband for example he loves making electronic music on his computer but he's at his computer the whole week and his job as a software developer so he's chosen to rather make music on his bass guitar rather go and play his bass guitar for the season of life just to get that kind of separation from the computer all the time [00:21:00] So just check in with those kinds of things. You want something that's gonna be a complete shift, something different. [00:21:06] So, what I'm hearing is a play break. So back to that idea, it's actually a break from your regular. So, if you're normally using your computer, go and do something different. And if you're normally doing things in a classroom, then do something outside of that space. [00:21:21] And on that, I'd say I'd also wanna talk about being open to new ways of working. One of the things that I, think that can come in with play is trying a new way of doing things. [00:21:31] So not just trying a small thing, but a new way. So for example, a solo retreat, I know both you and I have played with the concept of solo retreats and a huge shout out to, my friend and one of our fellow business owners, Helen Joy Butler, you can follow her on Instagram as well. Just type in Helen Joy Butler. [00:21:48] She's amazing. She has done a lot of work around solo retreats and both Shelley and I have explored that within the space that she and the containers that she's created for that, and they might work and they might not. And it's okay if they don't, but if they do work for you, reflect on it, tweak it, play with it, see how you can make it, your own. [00:22:07] So recently I did my own solo retreat and I just had an afternoon. I didn't go away, but everybody left my house. So I had the whole house to myself. And so I created my own mini solo retreat and it was amazing and it felt Playful and restorative, and it restored my energy and it felt really, really nice. [00:22:24] So that's one way that we can bring in a little bit more playfulness without it being like we have to play an actual game, [00:22:30] Yes. [00:22:31] which can sometimes be a bit awkward if we haven't done this for a long time. So for many of us, it can be 20 something years since we last really got stuck into something Playful or something that we really loved. [00:22:41] Yes, I think it takes a little bit of practice to get playful and to allow ourselves to do these kinds of things. So, and I really liked that example that you shared of experimenting with the way that you did your solo retreat and making it your own. [00:22:55] You know, I love me some experimentation. I've written several blog posts on this that are linked to in the show notes, if people are interested, but I find that experimentation brings intention to play. So it makes it a perfect strategy of actually bringing some playfulness into your business, or into your career as well, because typically play doesn't have an outcome. We're doing something, not for the outcome. [00:23:22] But I think experimentation just brings a little bit of structure to that play. And in an experiment with just making a hypothesis, we're just guessing something. And then we are going to check with our guess is right. So there's that detachment from the outcome that I think is really nice and really playful with using the strategy of experimentation in our businesses and in our careers. So, really what this all comes down to is that we can't predict the future. So in our businesses, we might be asking, I wonder if this offer will sell. Uh, I wonder if the social media strategy will work. Uh, will this new process or tech tool make me more productive? [00:24:08] So all of these questions we don't know until we do it. So, lay down a hypothesis, set up your experiments. And you've got your hypothesis of like, I think using this new tech tool is going to make us more productive. And put a start and end date to that experiment. And then in between that, really allow things to play out. [00:24:31] Allow yourself to play in between that and answer the question that you posed in your hypothesis. So it actually takes something that's very logical. But then in setting those boundaries of an experiments, you can actually allow yourself space to play. [00:24:48] So yeah, like it, it can feel a little bit difficult, but what I'm also illustrating here is that this play mentality can make its way into your business as well. So you, you can separate yourself and, and go and do your hobby or something Playful outside of work. But then that mentality will inevitably filter in to the way you do your business as well. [00:25:11] I'm also hearing that it could be, if someone's feeling anxious about starting off on how to start with a Playful mindset, then trying things and experimenting just a little within their business can be a really gentle way to start out with a Playful approach rather than feeling like they've gotta find a new thing they wanna do. [00:25:29] yes. You know what, I'm gonna throw in my example here and, and tell everyone about my new project that I've been working on. It's shelleytonkinsmith.Com. You know, I have created Rowena, you know, I have created so much contents over the years, podcasts to blogs, to, um, things about music programs homeschooling, you name it. [00:25:51] And so I've decided to bring that all under one umbrella, shelleytonkinsmith.Com. So you can go and have a look at my website so far, it's a work in progress and I'm kind of brining in everything under that roof, as a iterative process. But I, just think that's a nice Testament to I was playing. I was when I started several podcasts. It's it's I was playing, I was experimenting. I was trying. And when I started Rocking the Playroom in my blog about music, I didn't quite know where it was gonna go, but I just started it. And now it's time to integrate and synthesize all of these different, channels and content that I've created. [00:26:31] So. That all started with a lot of play. [00:26:34] And then another idea for incorporating play into your adult life is bring your kids in. So whether that your own kids or, you know, kids in your life, nieces, or nephews or whatever, um, play with those kids and draw life lessons from the games that you play. It's. Been amazing for me to discover like some of the very profound lessons that I can get from playing Monopoly or Zeus on the Loose or, even Minecraft. Yes. Even Minecraft. Um, there are many lessons that I can find when I like enter my kids' world and actually talk to them, listen to them and listen to what they're saying. They've got so many beautiful ideas that come across and come through. So, see the world as a child would see that world, enter your kid's world and, and play games with them, and it doesn't always have to be, people always say, oh, you must get done on the floor with them. [00:27:26] Sometimes that's not possible. Um, you can sit up and play a board game or run around and play soccer, or even just chat with them, read a book together and chat. Um, it's getting into that mind of a child. Our children have a lot to teach us, I think about play. [00:27:43] I absolutely agree. And I would add to that, that even just having a Playful conversation. So I know that my boys are older than yours and they're in high school or about to be in high school. We can just have a chat as we walk to school and that chat can be quite Playful and that can be a little bit of back and forth in a Playful banter. And through doing that, we get new ideas or inspiration or bit of laughter or something that [00:28:06] And that connection as well is so brilliant. Yeah. [00:28:10] one other thing That I would really, encourage people to check out is one of. Offerings, which is called Design Your Season. Now, Shelley and I have worked through this and we use it to support ourselves with designing this podcast and in our accountability this entire year. And the idea with design your season is that you plan ahead and you decide how you wanna feel and you then bring in that feeling for a season of your life. Now it can be a calendar season. So a season of spring, for example, or it could be for the season of your life. [00:28:42] So in all of those ways, the Design Your Season, Workbook and self-led workshop can assist you because it helps you explore how you wanna feel and what that might look like. And if play is something you want to kind of explore and have a go with like we've been talking about, then it could be a good way to do that. [00:28:58] So, Shelly, I know you've got one other thing because as a dedicated Playful Mompreneur listener, I know there is a very Playful thing that you've done that I really would love you to share with our audience. [00:29:11] Yes, listen, I'm sure a couple of people cringed at this, but so this is now, you know, as you practice your play, you can kind of do some silly things. And one of my silly things that I've done is that I invented an arch nemesis or like an in my inner critic. I kind of gave that person a personality and a name, her name is Cruelette de Smithers, kind of modeled along, Cruella de Ville in the 101 Dalmations. [00:29:36] But I, I actually came up with Cruelette de Smithers when I wrote a, a little kids concert. So there we go is like, you know, getting the kids to kind of influence and, and help us. Um, but then I was like, "why doesn't she just become my arch nemesis and I can actually just fight against her?" You see rebel things coming through here again, Ro, like I can fight against [00:29:57] All our books are connected. [00:29:59] all of them. [00:30:01] So. In episode, one of the Playful Mompreneur, I was kind of having trouble, like getting this podcast off the ground. And, you know, I think when you look at a project like a podcast, it seems so big. And so I, I brought Cruelette into the play and, and she interviewed me and just, I mean, I put on crazy Cruelette style voice. And then I answered the questions as Shelley, um, which helped to kick off the podcasts and it just got me going. It, it really was that idea of play firing up parts of your brain and also just getting you out of inaction. That's what it did for me. [00:30:36] And let's just say it's very entertaining. So for those of you who haven't heard it, it is definitely worth doing a quick search in your favorite podcast player for the Playful Mompreneur and going back and listening to episode one. [00:30:51] it was so cool. So don't be afraid to do some crazy things too, you know, might push you just slightly out of your comfort zone. [00:30:57] Love it. And so Shelly, you were just sharing how the invention of Cruelette was a great way for you to break through perfectionism. But I also know there's another P word, which is procrastination. Now there is definitely a risk where play could maybe venture into the realm of procrastination. [00:31:17] So the question I've got is, is there a danger of playing too much, or as they say it in the original Milo and Otis, over frolicking and exploring too much in that we don't end up taking the more productive action we end up just playing and not actually doing the productive thing. [00:31:34] Totally. There is, a danger of venturing into this procrastination territory where, you know, you're just trying so many ideas, you're experimenting and you're just, playing all the time and you don't get to actually produce things to actually, you know, air this podcast to, send a client, a proposal to go and make offers. [00:31:53] So yes, there's, there is definitely a risk of that, but I think the way we've been brought up in the way we've been conditioned, I think we probably more will venture towards, overdoing it, overworking burnout, um, like this over productivity kind of stuff. And. Honestly, I'd rather you err in the direction of play rather than going to burn yourself out and really pushing so hard in the name of productivity, because sure. [00:32:25] We all wanna achieve our goals. Totally. But if we're pushing towards a goal, that's not our goal, then that's not honestly, not very productive. You know, you're not producing something that's worthwhile or that's gonna fill you up. So I don't think. It's what an essentialist would do, um, to push towards this goal that's that's not your goal. So I would say allow a bit of space for some procrastination. [00:32:51] Playful procrastination. [00:32:53] Yes. [00:32:53] what we are talking about, it's not just generalized procrastination. It's the Playful procrastination is what we are focusing on here. [00:32:59] Yes, absolutely. Because I think there can be some things that look like procrastination, um, in play, but they actually end up being more productive than you think, you know, later on you realize, oh, this actually was productive. [00:33:13] And then I've also gotta say, as mothers, we have so many parts to ourselves and for many of us, we're not working 40 hours a week because we just don't have that time available to us. And that is how we've chosen to structure our lives. [00:33:27] So, so there is gonna be some blurring of lines, between this very serious business world and the world of life and motherhood and all this kind of Playful, energy. So I say, embrace that embrace this blurred line between, logical, seriousness and playfulness, and let's learn through play. [00:33:47] Let's be intentional about it. Let's schedule play. And then I think you don't have to worry about the pitfalls of procrastination too much. Because I think the more dangerous pitfall is when we get too graspy, too perfectionist, and we get overwhelmed. We think we have to listen to every guru there is out there, when the answer I feel is within ourselves. And if we embrace this Playful mindset, we will discover that we will explore that. And then we can move forward in this very essentialist way. So I say play your own game. [00:34:21] Yes, I cannot endorse that enough. This entire podcast episode is a permission slip to play. If you needed one, which of course you didn't, but I know some of you like to have a permission slip. [00:34:34] So Shelley, I know you and I could talk about this for probably another hour, but we are going to have to close things off here. So listeners, please let us know what you've thought about. All the amazing insights Shelley has shared today. And you can learn more about the support and services we each offer on our websites. [00:34:51] I can be found online at rowenamabbott.com. And Shelley you've shared with us one of your new websites, where can listeners find you online? [00:35:01] Yeah. So go and have a look at shelleytonkinsmith.Com for my writings and podcasts. And then I've created shelleysmithcreative.com as my copywriting business website. So I'm really focused, really essentialized, outlining my copywriting services. [00:35:19] And then I am ShelleySmithCreative on Instagram. [00:35:22] And I'm Shelley T Smith on Twitter. [00:35:25] And I'm rowenamabbott on Instagram. So you can just leave either of us a comment on a post and it will be fabulous to continue the conversation that we've started. [00:35:34] Speaking of conversation. We'd love it. If you would have a conversation with your friends about Two Booked Up, tell them about it. You can find us on apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can. Go and find us at twobookedup.com. [00:35:50] And of course, please make sure you subscribe to the podcast or follow us. That is the absolute best way to get all our future episodes. Thanks so much for joining us on Two Booked Up today. See you in the next episode.

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