Episode Transcript
Two Booked Up Episode 29 Workstyle by Lizzie Penny and Alex Hirst — an overview
[00:00:00] Shelley: You are listening to Two Booked Up and today it is Time for a Revolution. Our new featured book is by Business Partners, Lizzie Penny and Alex Hirst, and it's entitled Workstyle, A Revolution for Wellbeing, Productivity, and Society. If you're looking to work in your own way to throw out the 9 to 5 to rethink hourly based work and even rethink the idea of flexible work, then this is your book. Rowena Mabbott, are you ready to join the work style revolution?
[00:00:38] Rowena: Oh my goodness, Shelly, I don't think I've seen you this excited since maybe the Springboks won the Rugby World Cup, but yes, Lizzy Penny and Alex Hirst have given expression to the ideas of individualized work, autonomy at work, and the freedom to choose when and where you work.
These are the ideas that really connected the two of us many years ago. So I'm excited about this book and about the Workstyle revolution.
[00:01:05] Shelley: This is the Two Booked Up Podcast, where we talk about books.
[00:01:13] Rowena: The books that are challenging us to live more intentional lives.
[00:01:17] Shelley: The books that are equipping us on our business and professional journeys.
[00:01:21] Rowena: And the books that delight and bring us joy
[00:01:24] Shelley: So if you want to live life with more intention, and if you want to be doing work that brings you joy, then come and join the bookish conversation with me, Shelley Tonkin Smith.
[00:01:35] Rowena: and me Rowena Mabbott here on Two Booked Up.
[00:01:39] Shelley: All right, so let's talk about work style, and we are going to take the book into its four parts and start with part one, which is a good place to start because it's what is work style? And now you might have heard this word and you're like, oh my goodness, what are we even talking about when we hear the word work style?
So, Just as the word lifestyle describes the way you choose to live your life, the word workstyle is all about how you choose to work. It's the complete freedom to choose when and where you work. And so in this way it's a departure from what we've come to understand of the world of work up to now. Uh, chapter three particularly goes into the origins of the system of work and Lizzy and Alex reference Sir Robert Owen, who they nicknamed Sir Bobby o.
And he was the guy who first proposed the eight hour workday, and that was only around the mid 18 hundreds and he was a reformer because up to then it was just assumed that people should work all the time. And so I actually really love this part of the book because there's a lot of interesting history and some excellent facts for your next quiz night.
Like the word weekend was only added to the Oxford Dictionary in 1878, but the point of all of this history that they, uh, share in the book and why I'm mentioning it here is that we haven't really moved past this industrial age idea of work. And sure there've been improvements over the last like hundreds of years, but there's still this default expectation that if you're working, it's gonna be the nine to five, and there's a particular idea of what work looks like.
And also now you go, okay, work style sounds like flexible working and flexi hours and flexi time, but that's not work style. As Lizzie and Alex say in in the book, they argue that flexible work is still flexing around the industrial age model, and it's not creating change fast enough.
It's also creates this like in group and art group dynamics where the part-timers. Kind of get sidelined or excluded because they are not there every day of the week or not there, nine to five.
So the book starts really with Lizzie and Alex's own work style stories. And how they struggled to fit into this traditional working world in their own ways. So that's why one night down the pub, they are very British. They invented this word, Workstyle in a desperate attempt to express the idea of individualized work, of autonomy at work, and the freedom to choose when and where you work.
So that's an overall summary of what the idea of work style is, how it came about, and what almost work style is fighting against. So Ro, I'd love to know from you, what did you think about this concept of work style that they introduced in the first part of the book?
[00:05:01] Rowena: I think, look, the theory is great and I really like the approach. I loved the history lesson, and I appreciate the rationale that Lizzie and Alex share in the first part of the book.
But I have to confess, I also found, as I listened to the audiobook, I felt very frustrated. My mind kept coming back to the idea that the three core things that are key for successful implementation of work style, which are the ability to truly embrace asynchronous working, a digital-first environment, and to operate in a trust-based environment.
Well, those things just are not possible for vast sections of the population. And so, I got frustrated because I felt like it was a bit of a utopian vision and sure, utopian visions are great, we all love them, but I think especially with our recent experiences through the pandemic and my, the experiences here and around the world with essential workers, it just felt like a big ask to sort of propose this work style model.
But I will say that I kept listening and I do acknowledge that Lizzie and Alex addressed my concerns in chapter five. So I was then happy to keep listening and learning.
[00:06:11] Shelley: Yeah, I think that's an interesting one. So if you are listening now and you're going, oh no, I'm so skeptical. This sounds impossible, this sounds idealistic. Um, I think in chapter five they were very honest that work style is not gonna be possible for everyone right now. Like as you said, for those jobs where you need to be physically present.
And I found that they did make some compelling arguments for that. In some cases it is more possible than you think. And at least you can also get some benefits of work style. So it might not be this complete, uh, work from the beach, work from anywhere. If you happen to be like a nurse, um, obviously that's not gonna work, but.
There can be some benefits of thinking about that job, say nursing in, in a work style way. So, yeah, and I think for those of us who do have the privilege and it is a privilege to embrace work style, um, we should grab that opportunity with both arms and pave the way so that eventually more people can work in this way.
I think that's what they are, are sort of advocating in this book that it is idealistic, but I think, for some of us it is more possible than we think and we kind of don't wanna go into this default industrial age thinking.
But yes, if you need more convincing, I think let's move on now to the next part of the book, which are all about the benefits of work style.
So now Lizzie and Alex make the case that by embracing Workstyle, you'll get three major benefits. You'll improve your wellbeing in a holistic way. You'll become more productive. And you'll play your part in building a more inclusive society where everyone will be free to work in their own work style.
Let's talk about how work style elevates your wellbeing. What stood out for you in this section Ro?
[00:08:05] Rowena: So look, I loved this section because the idea is that work style helps you embrace the big areas that make up wellbeing. So that includes your mind, your purpose, your body and health, your connection with others, and time to learn. Now, you heard me just say I wasn't really enamored with the first section, like I loved the content, but I was feeling a bit kind of questioning about the whole work style approach.
And I think this section was the section that won me over, and I particularly liked the alien story shared in chapter seven. Because I think this really drove home the point to me about wellbeing and how our system of work might be a bit broken.
So the idea is that an alien lands on planet Earth and you are the person who is tasked with explaining the concept of work to the alien. So you explain, well, you get up early, you leave your loved ones before they are awake to travel in the dark to arrive at an office where you likely sit in a little cubicle with no natural light, staring at a little screen or morning, you probably eat your food at your desk.
Then you do some more hours in front of a little screen until it's time to go home. But when you leave, you go to another building where you run on a machine whilst you gaze at another screen. Then you cram yourself with thousands of others into a moving box to get home in the dark after your loved ones have gone to bed.
You eat, you zone out in front of another screen, go to bed and then do it all again. Now it's, it's humorous, right?
But I could completely relate to that. I thought, yes, that's pretty much, except for whether going to the gym and running on a machine bit, which I was never a fan of, I completely can see that that is what my life was like for a long time.
When I was working in, um, that nine to five kind of corporate, but mine was not nine to five, but I'll get to that in a minute. So what I really loved about the alien story was that it showed me just how outdated our societal perspective of work is. And so from there, after that alien story, everything just kind of clicked.
Probably because also those topics, mind purpose, body health, connection with others, time to learn, they relate so closely to what I've experienced in my own career and when I've been working with clients.
[00:10:24] Shelley: Yeah, the purpose chapter for me jumps out as a highlight points. You know, embracing my own work style has really helped me to feel like I'm living out my purpose. And our last book that we featured was 4,000 Weeks by Oliver Berkman. So, In 4,000 weeks, it's all about how do you spend your 4,000 weeks here on Earth in the best way possible, in the way that it's gonna feel that you've made the most of your time.
And that purpose chapter really helped harness the, there was a beautiful link between the two books. And there was a comment in work style of like that you're working towards your eulogy rather than working towards your cv. And it's all like, you know, this idea of death, this like coming through these books that we are reading and it maybe, again, seems a little macabre, but. We are doing work in our work style to accomplish a bigger purpose. And it's the kind of legacy and the mark that you wanna leave in the world. And I love that aspect of work style and that
it can bring you that benefit. And it's not, it's not about adding things to your CV and building up experience sort of only for the working world, but it's more about living out your purpose.
And also for me, the chapter on connection in this section of wellbeing was great because. I feel that work style has enabled me to both connect with my kids and family beyond my work. Like my work is just one part of life and I've, it creates more space for me to connect with my loved ones, kind of contrary to the alien story.
And then also I just feel that because of. Work style. I can connect with people across the world who have now become friends, including you, Ro, um, very much including you. You know, we couldn't have done this had we not embraced work style, and I, I love that work style enables these broader connections beyond your local network. You've now got this. Bigger network of clients, of colleagues and people who become friends, and you have this connection, and I think that's really beautiful. So, so that was the, the part that's, that stood out for me in the wellbeing section.
[00:12:40] Rowena: Shelley, I completely agree and I know that there is very little chance that you and I would've had the good fortune to be able to work together unless we were both operating in a work style way.
And the connection piece definitely is important and one of the huge benefits of work style. But I think we should maybe move on to part three. What can you tell us about part three, Shelly?
[00:13:04] Shelley: Yeah, so part three is the next benefit of work style, which is work style step changes your productivity. So it's not just about getting benefits for yourself and your own wellbeing. You actually are more productive and this is gonna, you know, impress, I would say the industrialists and the, the people who are going, I want actually more productivity out of my workforce.
So, in terms of productivity, there's sort of five main areas that, that they look at and. The, the first chapter in the section is about your energy and maintaining your momentum.
And I love this because momentum is my word of the year, and when you work in a work style way, you control that momentum. You control of like, when do I have the most energy? Whether it's the time of the day, the time of the year, you manage your own momentum.
The next part of productivity is that work style brings you clarity so that you end up doing the right things at the right time. It's not just because this is the always the way it's been done. You actually think about these things, do things with intention and with clarity. When you work in a work style way.
The next chapter was about mastery and also I love mastery, um, becoming great at the things that we are passionate about. So I think when you work in a work style way, there's a lot of essentializing of taking away the things that don't matter and really focusing in on your craft and your skill. And it's interesting, I, put some of this work style stuff into ChatGPT of talking about the history of work. And before the industrial age it was very much around individual craftsmanship where you had these, apprentices and masters and it was all about individualization of work. And so I think perhaps work style is a return to that level of mastery.
And then the fourth chapter of this section is all about trust and feeling accountable and in cooperation with others. And when we do that, we are more productive. We feel accountable to one another, and we, we can only trust each other because we're working in a more, output and delivery based orientation.
And then finally, It's the section on environment. And this is talking about not the um, nature environment, but more the environment in which you work, which I suppose could be out in a forest or wherever you want to work. Cuz work style means you can work wherever you want to, but you find in optimal places to work.
And for many of us, that's our home office. But for other people, yes, it is the beach, it's the coffee shop, it's wherever you come alive and wherever you get your most, I suppose it comes back to that energy point, but you, you craft your environment to fit your work style. So, yeah. I've kind of given the brief helicopter overview of that section, Roe, what stood out for you in this section on productivity?
[00:16:03] Rowena: Mm. You know, Shelly, this was probably my next favorite section. Because I loved how the interconnectedness between work style and how work style supports your energy. And, you know, managing our momentum and managing our energy is something that I'm very passionate about.
I love the fact that doing the right things at the right time, so that clarity about getting really clear about what matters, because that ties in so beautifully to just about every book we've shared with our audience so far. But also that clarity is something that I'm, I work with my clients on as well, so doing the right things at the right time, and I would add working in a way that suits your energy.
The other one that I loved was trust, because I think we are a classic example of that. We are output driven. It doesn't matter who does what when, as long as we get the output done.
So as long as we have an outline for a podcast before we actually plan to record it, then that's our outcome basis. And I loved the trust part where you can't work in a work style way without trust.
So then the final bit, which was I loved this bit, was you rarely need to push through.
Now this was a big kind of take home aha message for me, if you like, because with nearly 20 years of corporate behind me, I frequently had to push through. So this was a really valuable insight as to a huge benefit of work style. When you're working in a work style way, you very rarely need to push through because you are using your time and energy in an optimal way.
So if you are best in the morning, you're working in the morning and you're not having to push through that afternoon slump. I suspect I don't think Lizzy and Alex talk about it, but I suspect there'd be a whole lot less chocolate consumption if we didn't have to push through. I think that's a very attractive feature, attractive benefit of work style.
The other thing was my take home message, and I loved this and it seems like such a no-brainer as soon as you say it out loud is that work is an activity, not a place. So work is a thing we do, not a place we need to go.
And for me it seems like so obvious as soon as you say it, but for me, there was a little bit of a light bulb moment going on there because it just completely reframes how we think about work.
And so I'm just gonna share one little sentence with you, Shelley, because I think this just made me laugh as I was, uh, walking through the park, doing my work, walking through the park. And the, uh, sentence that Lizzie shared was, you can work from anywhere as long as it's got wifi and a toilet.
[00:18:37] Shelley: Ah, I, uh, I would probably add a thermos of coffee. That's also non-negotiable for me. But yes, we've got this benefit of hooking up to the rest of the world with wifi and working from anywhere.
Now, yeah. Ro, I, I wanna dive a little bit deeper into that concern that you raised at the beginning of this episode that work style wouldn't work for everybody. But now in this last section of the book, they talk about. The fact that work style has a lasting impact on society as a whole. So now we, you know, we've kind of really started it at the individual level. Then we've kind of gone out into the productivity and the workplace kind of level.
But now we've gone that step further into society as a whole and having that lasting impact on the whole of society. So, yeah. What did you make of this benefit of work style, the society part?
[00:19:34] Rowena: Shelly, I appreciated the very inclusive, human development focus of this section and these chapters. And as you probably know, and as listeners would know too, I'm a very practically minded kind of girl. I, so I appreciated the focus on the more practical aspects of how work style can ensure paid work is more accessible for more people.
And that was a very positive, kind of tone that underpinned all those chapters.
So also as I shared in episode 28, Part of my 23 for 2023 reading challenge, I've been intentionally reading a lot about women's roles in work and how it's changed and the challenges women continue to face, such as sexism, discrimination, and the cost of childcare.
So the chapters in this section explore the many benefits that work style can bring for those who are currently underrepresented in the paid workplace. For example, most, a lot of women, women are still generally underrepresented, particularly in the upper echelons, as well as for those people who traditional hours doesn't work, doesn't suit them, such as those people maybe with a disability, with chronic illness or childcare obligations.
Even in the paper just this week here in Australia, there was a lady who was saying she would love to work more, but because of the cost of childcare, it doesn't make any sense for her to work more than two days because the third day of childcare would eat up all of her salary. So it just doesn't make any sense.
And so Lizzy and Alex point out, and as that interview showed, many people want to work. But the systems and structures of the current approach to work and some of the associated things like childcare limit that possibility. So I really appreciated that embracing work style is not just great for individuals, which it clearly is, but also for society as a whole because it increases participation which helps people with purpose and ultimately helps them feel greater contentment because they feel that they're being a valuable contributor to society, and that is one of the psychologically proven things that help people live longer, be healthier, and be happier.
[00:21:39] Shelley: Wow. That's, that's really interesting. I also found that this was a really interesting section for me. It. Made me think, as I say, just wider than my own personal choices. I've always sort of advocated for entrepreneurship as embracing work style, but I'm like, no, there's a bigger, there's a bigger mission here.
So yeah, many people will call Lizzy and Alex idealists. I don't think they'd be insulted by that. And yeah, it's an idealistic idea that we can all have our own individualized work style. Uh, but right now, the alternative is excluding so many people who would like to work, but because they don't fit the mold, they get sidelined. And as you said, it's like mothers, people with chronic illnesses, uh, people with neurodiversity as well. And like in South Africa, It's for people who've been denied a formal education due to poverty, due to the systemic injustices that we've had in our country, and who now sit unemployed, and I feel like work style, there's gonna have to be a South African brand of work style, I believe, but I feel like we can make a change by embracing this inclusivity that work style brings to the table.
It's not gonna solve everything. But if we start shifting our thinking to this work style paradigm, I think that so many more people could be included in the world of work. Um, they can get. Some of the benefits of this, better wellbeing, better productivity, and then I think it's kind of this virtuous circle because then society as a whole will benefit from those unique skills and perspectives that these previously marginalized groups have really had to hold back because they didn't fit the mold. The world of work just didn't suit them. So yeah, the subtitle of this book says it's a revolution, and I really believe that that's what they've got on their hands here. What they are proposing is quite a drastic, 180 degree turn from how we've always done work.
I'd love to conclude this episode by each giving our overall, review of the book. So. For me at the beginning of the book, I think it says a lot instead of a dedication that they usually have at the beginning of the book, the authors have printed together, we can create a happier, more fulfilled society through a world of work without bias. So that's their big why, and I think that captures those three big benefits that we've just talked about of work style, of wellbeing, productivity, and an inclusive society.
And. In terms of my review, I listened to the audiobook first. I just wanna mention, if you get in the audiobook, I could afford to listen to it at at least 1.25 speed. And I think Roe, you listened to it at even faster pace. I loved Alex and Lizzie's quirky humor, like the alien stories and they like go back in time and interview Sir Bobby O. also love the stories of other work stylers. So. Lizzie and Alex had like a, I suppose you could call it an agency or a consultancy called Hoxby. They still do. And they have a lot of people who worked at Hoxby was kind of like a cooperative of freelancers and they share their work style stories throughout the book, which was quite fun because work style is so individualized so it was wonderful to get those individualized stories just to give you some ideas.
And I loved it so much that I bought the hardcover book. I got my parents to bring it back from the UK and it's got lots of little custom illustrations that they've had done. They're super fun. And then also all the design and learning elements are great.
So they've got chapter summaries, they've got ideas to play your part in the work style revolution. So it's a book that I think if you, if you get you, you could find yourself going back to, to those. Sections. Um, and I will say for our South African listeners, you can easily get the audio book. And now you can also get a Kindle version, which is actually quite a low price. It's significantly lower than the hardcover price. So you can access those in South Africa that way. And really overall, if it's not clear already, I am a huge fan of the book.
You know, I've got my other podcast and the brand of the Playful Mompreneur. I. And work style really just articulates so much of what I teach there and the change that I'd like to see in the world. And I've always believed that if you wanted a different work style, you had to create yourself in the form of entrepreneurship, which I kind of still believe in.
But I see that Lizzie and Alex definitely don't want to just stop at only freelancers and entrepreneurs. They wanna change traditional workplaces as well, which is very powerful for me.
[00:26:33] Rowena: Yep. I absolutely agree, Shelly and I like you. I think actually the traditional workplaces or the corporate world in my personal experience is well overdue and perhaps quite ripe for a revolution. Cause whilst the pandemic certainly shifted, how many knowledge workers around the world worked, with working from home, it's been proven to be a viable option for loads of people.
There is still considerable room for improvement. From my own experiences working in corporate and also observing my husband and other close friends and family, there have been significant shifts made and a lot of flexibility to allow for life as well as work. But as pointed out, it's still flexible work because the majority still feel they need to be available during the traditional core hours of say 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM.
Um, so they're working flexibly, but it's not a true work style. At least that's certainly the case here in Australia because true choice and embracing of work style, I think still remains elusive. But I would very much encourage you if you're dreaming of a better way of working, read, or listen to this book, and if you are currently employed by a large organization, read it and then suggest to your team or your manager also read it. Maybe if you get a paper copy or a hide back copy, you can kind of lend it to them and encourage them with the tags that you've highlighted of where the things you think they should really pay attention to.
Because realistically, it's through sharing the message that we will help create the change we want.
Which leads us to what can you look forward to in next week's episode?
In our next episode we are going to be sharing our work styles like those work style stories that Shelly loved so much in the book and I have to say I really enjoyed as well. because hopefully through sharing how we structure our work to suit our life and how our work styles have evolved, we might inspire you to consider adjusting your work style too.
So I'll share about how my work style was nonexistent in my corporate days and how it changed once I became a parent through being a consultant and then evolved again now I run my own business.
[00:28:41] Shelley: Oh yes. I think with work style evolution and iteration is key. So I'll also share my current work style, which includes being lead teacher and managing homeschooling for my boys as well as running my own business. And then just in my character being a curiosity driven rebel and all the other things that I love to explore and play with in my life, it all fits into my work style.
So I'm gonna be trying to distill it all down into a work style that I can explain to you all. So I'm looking forward to that episode.
[00:29:16] Rowena: Me too. And I'll just say we've got an exciting surprise coming your way with this book.
I'll leave it at that for now, but Shelly. You need to give a little bit of an update you have a new offer in the works and it's all about becoming a better procrastinator.
[00:29:33] Shelley: Uh, yes. Ro. Thank you. You can see everyone how Rowena is holding me accountable. She's a very good accountability partner. So in episode 26, I explained my seven R process for procrastinating better. And then based on the really positive feedback that I got from that episode, I decided I'm gonna put together an audio course.
So it's gonna be a series of alternating lessons and then like these journaling prompts that you can listen to in small slices of your day and you'll listen to the audio, and then you'll have a moment to ideally write and journal. But if you wanna just sit there and think and wait for brainwave moments to come to you, those shower moments of insights, that's the kind of thing you're gonna have in the alternating lessons.
And really my aim is to help you to free up hours of time each week. I want you to get the important stuff done and stop procrastinating about that and really complete the project that matter. So you can sign up for my VIP wait list, that's at procrastination.ShelleyTonkin Smith.Com. I'll leave a link to that in the show notes, and you can also read my blog post on this at ShelleyTonkinSmith.com/procrastination.
[00:30:51] Rowena: I can't wait for the audio course, Shelly. And you know, I love a practical approach to getting things done, but for now, we hope we've inspired you to think differently about how and when you work and maybe read work style. And if you do, it's a perfect book for inclusion in your 23 for 2023 reading challenge.
You can download your free copy of the 2023 Reading Challenge checklist at two Booked up.com where you can find the show notes, a transcript of this episode, and of course the page to sign up and receive your free reading challenge checklist.
[00:31:28] Shelley: Yes. And let us know what you think about work style and what we've said today. Do you love the idea? Like us? What questions do you have about work style? Either way, please share your thoughts. You can find me on Twitter at ShelleyTSmith or sign up for my newsletter at ShelleyTonkinSmith.com. And then if you'd like to learn more about my copywriting services, head on over to shelleySmithcreative.com.
You can also pop me an email if you want to, if you've got questions about work style. At shelley@shelleysmithcreative.com.
[00:32:01] Rowena: And you can find me at Rowena Mabbott on Instagram. Let's continue the conversation over there. And if you'd like to learn more about how I can support you as an accountability buddy, like I am for Shelly, or as a career in Life confidence coach, or you'd like to download my free book, the A Career in Life Confidence, or read any of my over 150 blog posts, then head on over to my online home at RowenaMabbott.Com.
[00:32:26] Shelley: Thanks for listening to Two Booked Up today. Rowena and I will be back with another episode in a couple of weeks time.
[00:32:33] Rowena: You've been listening to Two booked Up with me, Rowena Mabbott.
[00:32:45] Shelley: And me, Shelley Tonkin Smith. Please subscribe or follow Two Booked Up in your podcast player. And if you've enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you'd leave a positive review.
