Episode Transcript
TBU Episode 60
[00:00:00] Rowena: Hello and welcome to Two Booked Up. I'm Rowena Mabbott, and today we are talking our reading plans for the summer. I'm joined, as always, by my co host, Shelley Tonkin Smith.
[00:00:16] How are you, Shelley?
[00:00:18] Shelley: Hi, Ro! Well, I'm super excited not only because we're talking books and reading, this is our jam after all, but we're exploring this idea of an anti library and also sharing our favorite fiction and nonfiction reads of the last year, 2024.
[00:00:36] Rowena: Yes, and of course, we'll also talk about the books we want to read over the holiday period and those we have popped on our wishlist. Listeners, you'll get loads of ideas and inspiration for your own holiday reading and possibly gift ideas too.
[00:00:51] Shelley: Now, I do just want to say at the top of the show that we've got a bit of news to share about the future of Two Booked Up, because we are going to be saying goodbye for now. And we'd like to tell you about that in a bit, but we're going to leave that to the end of the show. For now, we're talking books.
[00:01:11] So stay tuned. We've got plenty of inspiration and a fun bookish chat. Welcome to Two Booked Up. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith.
[00:01:24] Rowena: And I'm Rowena Mabbott. We're two well read best friends.
[00:01:28] Shelley: And now you are an honorary member of our book club. We're going to fast forward you to the mind blown and mic drop parts of those business and personal development books that are probably on your must read list.
[00:01:42] Rowena: Because as busy, multi passionate working parents, we know how hard it is to find time to read, but we also know how much you love learning, growing and making a difference in the world.
[00:01:53] Shelley: So treat yourself to a bit of bookish conversation, whether you've read the book or not.
[00:01:59] Rowena: With your two friends on Two Booked Up.
[00:02:02] Shelley: Okay. So we have made it to the Final episode of season four. So this is a big celebratory episode for us and for all of our listeners, I hope you will join us in celebrating. It's the final of, of the season and also the final of 2024.
[00:02:25] Rowena: Yes, which means we are talking about our holiday reading! In the Southern Hemisphere, it is now summer time, and just about everybody takes a break over Christmas and New Year to enjoy the beautiful summer weather, and of course, Enjoy some holiday reading.
[00:02:41] Shelley: Absolutely. We're no different here in South Africa. We're also taking a break. And definitely I have got a rapidly growing TBR, to be read list for summer.
[00:02:50] Rowena: Last year, we shared our annual holiday traditions centered around books. You can check that out in episode 37 and our favorite books of the year. But Shelley, now I want to come back to something more recent from episode 58, where you dropped the idea of an anti library, when we were discussing how we're tracking with our reading challenge. And I thought this idea is just so intriguing. So could you perhaps tell me and our listeners a little bit more about what an anti library is?
[00:03:20] Shelley: Oh, yes. I love this idea of an anti library and I will say I discovered it on Nesslabs and we will link to a post on the Nesslabs website that explains the concept of an anti library very well. So check out that in the show notes. But the basic idea is that an anti library is made up of your unread books.
[00:03:41] So, those books that you've been given, or that you've purchased, but that you just haven't gotten around to reading yet. And for many of us, we feel bad about that, and we're like, oh my goodness, I've got so much to read, I should be reading these, why are they on my shelves? But, there is something very powerful, and this is something that I've learned from my learning in depth experience and as an educator and as a homeschooling parent.
[00:04:08] There's something very powerful in the books that we have not yet read. So, this anti library is your private collection. of specifically unread books and it really captures the vastness of the unknown. It shows you right there in your face that there is still always so much more to learn.
[00:04:31] Rowena: I love that. And I do think that that is quite an exciting idea, isn't it? It helps us keep things in perspective, but it also shows us that there's always much more to learn, which is also kind of, inspiring.
[00:04:43] Shelley: Yes, that we haven't, we haven't arrived, we haven't like ever like gotten to the point where we've got some kind of PhD or some kind of, you know, achievement. There's always more to learn, there's breadth, there's depth, there's always more.
[00:04:56] Rowena: Yeah, for sure. I think that's a really nice explanation and I'm hoping that our listeners are also feeling a lot more comfortable and perhaps I might suggest a little more excited about the books we've not quite got round to reading yet because now we have a formal place and a name for them.
[00:05:11] They are our anti library. So with that, now we've just rationalized our inability to read the vast number of books we purchase. Let's dive into our very first question. Shelley, what do you hope to read or listen to this summer or the coming season, that is currently sitting in your anti library?
[00:05:30] Shelley: Oh, I have quite a vast anti library, especially recently I've bought a bunch of books myself and have been given books as well. But I'll, I'll highlight a few that I've, I've really got at the top of the pile. The one is on my Kindle. It's called Slow Productivity by Cal Newport. And so the subtitle of the book is The Lost Art of Accomplishment Without Burnout.
[00:05:56] So I haven't read any of Cal Newport's books, I'll admit, and recently I actually came across someone who was complaining about Cal Newport as much as I complain about James Clear and Atomic Habits. So we will soon see if I find someone new to fight with, but I do like the This idea, this concept of slow productivity I think we are so very rushed and I want to see how can Cal help us get slower and yet still productive?
[00:06:29] Then the next book that's on that anti library list is called The Invention of Nature. Actually got it here, I'm going to show it to you, Ro. It's a beautiful book and it's like, we've got this old fashioned binding where they kind of. Cut the cover a little bit short. So this one I've got in hard copy and it's actually a delight to hold.
[00:06:47] It's called The Invention of Nature, Alexander von Humboldt's New World. And that is by Andrea Wulf. Alexander von Humboldt was the most famous scientist of his age. He was a visionary German naturalist and polymath whose discoveries forever changed the way we understand the natural world and whose ideas form the foundation of modern environmentalism.
[00:07:12] But a lot of us do not know about him. I was surprised to find out about him and all of his sort of discoveries in nature and in science. And so fascinated, saw this book on Amazon, added to cart. So that's my anti library. On that overall theme of exploration, this has been an area that I've been focusing on in my learning in depth.
[00:07:40] I have come across another book that I've got on my Kindle called Explorers, A New History by Matthew Lockwood. It's got the stories of the usual explorers that we've learned about in history class, maybe like Pocahontas and Columbus and Captain Cook, but it also includes these untold stories of people usually denied the title of explorers.
[00:08:07] So immigrants. Indigenous interpreters, local guides, fugitive slaves. These people were exploring new territories as much as the sort of Western sort of colonial kind of stereotype of an explorer. And so this book explores all of those people and brings their stories to light. So that looks absolutely fascinating.
[00:08:30] I've read the introduction and I'm like, I am here for this one. So those, those are three that I will highlight in, in my anti library.
[00:08:38] Rowena: I am intrigued to learn more about these books and I will be very interested to see, or to hear perhaps your take on Cal Newport work, because I read Digital Minimalism and I actually quite enjoyed it. Now, the other two books, I would agree with you. They are right on your theme. And I love that you're continuing your exploration theme, which you started earlier this year with your learning in depth work, and I do think that the idea of expanding what we define as an.
[00:09:04] Explorer in the exploration space will be very intriguing and potentially quite I want to say kind of changing your perspective about how you see the world.
[00:09:13] Shelley: Yes, this pathway has been so interesting to me and you know, we've talked a lot about diversifying our reading tastes and this has been a good example of that. But yes, that's what I'm planning to read that's, I would say, on the top of my list.
[00:09:27] But Rowena, what do you hope to read this summer?
[00:09:32] Rowena: Okay. Well, from my anti library, I have Breathing While Drowning by Veronica Strachan. I met Veronica at a writer's function and I received her nonfiction book about the lessons she'd learned and her quest for wholeness after her daughter's passing. And so it felt like a very you It's a very personal book and it's a very personal topic and subject for me and so I'm looking forward to reading it but I haven't started it yet because I feel like it's one I need to be able to give myself wholly to and not be distracted when I'm trying to read it.
[00:10:03] The next one I've got is Funny Story by Emily Henry, which has been in my anti Library since it was released earlier this year in April, and I have had the paperback waiting ever since. It's been sitting on my shelf like a little beacon of pinkness, because it is pink, and I've been saving it as a reward, as my kind of reward read for Once No More Simon Says, which is my book, is out in the world.
[00:10:26] So by the time this goes to air, I will be giving myself permission to read Funny Story.
[00:10:32] Shelley: Oh, fun. I like that you've rewarded yourself book for a book.
[00:10:36] Rowena: yeah, correct. Um, I've also got, again, from the ANTI library, Best Wishes, Making the World a Better, Less Annoying Place, One Wish at a Time by Richard Glover, which is, was a Christmas gift last year and I haven't read it yet, but I am definitely keen to read it this summer.
[00:10:51] And I've had a quick flick through and it looks like it will be Quite entertaining. He's a very funny writer and I've enjoyed a lot of his other books where they're the sort that you find yourself laughing out loud, and then you have to share immediately what you've just read to whoever's around because you kind of need to justify why you were giggling.
[00:11:08] And it feels like one, I could probably read a few pages, pop the bookmark in and then go have a swim and then come back and it wouldn't be like too distracting. And then I'm going to add to my list of books that I I hope to read this summer. Two that you've mentioned Shelley, now they're not in my anti library.
[00:11:25] One is Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Berkman. And the other one you'll be very proud is The Plan by Kendra Adachi.
[00:11:35] Shelley: Well, you know that I am, I'm currently obsessed with Meditations for Mortals. Today's chapter that I read is entitled Stop being so kind to future you on entering time and space completely. So there's, he's just so contrary with some of his ideas which is ironic because then that goes against Kendra's ask the magic question of what can I do now to make life easier later?
[00:12:00] But I I will say they do in fact, compliment each other. He's got a beautiful way of working. Working around these these things and just making you think in a different direction. So, I'm looking forward to hear what you think of Meditations for Mortals and, of course, The Plan. I've spoken a lot about The Plan, I think by Kendra Adachi.
[00:12:18] Have I told you I've got a signed copy that's So I am totally. The hard cover book, 'cause I read the kind of pre-release book in, in ebook format. And so now I've got the, the hard copy book and it's lovely because there's so many little diagrams and acronyms and pep talks that she can go and refer back to.
[00:12:40] So and I will just say that it is time management and she's really targeted at. specifically for women. And because I've noticed she's gotten a bit of criticism for not making the super duper clear on the cover that it's it, honestly, the principles can be applied across the board, but she does, you know, take a little bit of aim at the patriarchy and people have gotten a bit cross about that.
[00:13:02] But I personally love her feisty take on the male dominated productivity industry. So not men in general, but this male dominated and male orientated productivity industry. So yes, enough about that. But I love the idea that you've got that Best Wishes sounds like a lovely nonfiction book for a summertime reading experience of like being able to laugh a bit, but also be, be learning as well as you're laughing
[00:13:27] Rowena: I'm not sure I'm going to be learning. Just let's put that out there. Yeah. It's not that kind of nonfiction. It's entertaining nonfiction. And I suspect it's based on some of his weekly columns that he shares in the newspaper.
[00:13:41] Shelley: Okay. So that is what we've got planned for the future. Let's now. Move back into the past. Rowena, what was your favorite fiction read of this past year?
[00:13:53] Rowena: That is so hard and I spent a long time umming and ahhing about this one and I first thought maybe Wayward by Amelia Hart because I mentioned that multiple times on this podcast and I loved it and it's one of those books that stuck with me and I kept popping back into my head. But if I have to only choose one, and I know I do, a more recent read, The Ministry of Time by Callie Anne Bradley is my pick.
[00:14:18] So it's a near future or alternative future, time travel, romance, and they throw in all sorts of extra complexity, which made it an incredibly compelling, absolute page turner of a book for me. And yes, I did read it in paperback form, which is highly unusual. And at the time of recording, just only a week or two ago, this book has won the DIMMICS book of the year for 2024.
[00:14:41] Now, DIMMICS is a very large Australian bookstore and every year, they Announce their top book of the year. They also have like the 101 top books of the year. They're kind of like the Australian equivalent of Goodreads, perhaps, but it's not so much a website and social media, it's more that they sell books and they base it on people voting and that sort of thing.
[00:14:58] So yes, Ministry of Time was my favorite fiction read.
[00:15:01] Shelley: Amazing. So yes, you're obviously not the only one whose favorite that was. Well, I must say, I've been pleasantly surprised by these kind of alternative future kind of narratives, mainly from TV shows on TV. Like the Man in the High Castle, I loved and in books, I mean, I love that idea of time travel in Stephen King's JFK novel, 11 22 63, which I've, I've mentioned on the podcast before as well.
[00:15:28] So Rowena, I think since this has come out tops for you, I'm going to be adding it to my list because I need to just throw in a bit of fiction into my holiday plans.
[00:15:38] Rowena: Nice. Okay, so Shelley, I would like to ask you the same question. What was your favourite fiction read this past year?
[00:15:48] Shelley: Okay, well, since I read fiction for myself and for my kids, I'm going to just do two, one more like for me and the adult side of things, and then one for the kids. So, the one for me that my favourite fiction read was Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. that,
[00:16:05] Rowena: Yes!
[00:16:06] Shelley: that was as read, because I think this is an important piece of this podcast.
[00:16:10] This reading experience as read by Faith Moore on Storytime for Grownups. I just finished it on Monday. Faith wrapped up things and I almost wanted to cry. I was like, oh, I wish I could have more. It was just so lovely having her notes and she just brought the book to life for me. But I just really enjoyed as she pointed out, Pride and Prejudice was like.
[00:16:34] really the first rom com and when you look at it through that lens it suddenly, you know, it's laugh out loud funny and so enjoyable and I did say I wanted up my classics game
[00:16:46] and and
[00:16:46] I have there we
[00:16:48] go and
[00:16:48] Rowena: Gold star for you.
[00:16:50] Shelley: It's now come out tops. And I will say, you know, I mean, I'm saying that I'm choosing it as my sort of more adult version, but the kids have been listening in, you know, when the podcast comes on in the car and that kind of thing, and they've been enjoying it too.
[00:17:01] So that's, that's interesting to note as well. But the book that I've been reading aloud to my kids, the fiction book that I really want to mention as my favorite fiction read of 2024 is is The Penderwicks. It's the five book series. So there's five books here that I'm lumping into one. I really just feel that 2024 has been the year of the Penderwicks for us.
[00:17:25] At its heart, it's a little family saga, and the series runs over about 15 years, and we share in the family members joys and sorrows. I would say number four, Penderwicks in Spring, was my favourite. I was honestly crying as I read parts of that one to my boys. And it sparked such beautiful conversations around the characters and their emotions.
[00:17:51] And yeah, when we got to book five, I noticed one of the reviewers said, Penderwicks, we're not done yet! Ready to let you go, and I must say, I share that for you too. I'm like, can't you just keep going with the series? You're on to good wicket here. So thank you, Jeanne Birdsall. It's by Jeanne Birdsall.
[00:18:08] Rowena: Nice. So I love that we're meant to choose one book and you threw in six. I feel like that is very consistent with your rebellious nature,
[00:18:18] Shelley: but I
[00:18:18] put them in like a little envelope, you know?
[00:18:20] Rowena: Yes, yes, yes, nice, nice. It's all about the arranging. Um, But I also am very pleased that you mentioned way back at the beginning of this year around what one of the things you wanted to do was to potentially try reading Pride and Prejudice.
[00:18:34] And I just want to acknowledge that you actually did that in a way that felt It's fun for you, which is brilliant. And perhaps that's kind of key to the message that we've been talking about all the time in Two Booked Up and around our diversification of reading is: reading is fun, it's pleasurable, it's something we do because we enjoy it. And we want to encourage our listeners to do that. So yes, fabulous. All right. So let's move into non fiction Shelley, what was your favorite non fiction read of 2024?
[00:19:04] Shelley: Okay. I'm going to slip in two here again, Rowena, because
[00:19:08] Rowena: Of course
[00:19:09] Shelley: feel, I feel like I've got like this sort of just learning for the fun that we were talking about, learning for learning's sake and then like learning more for a mission. It feels more like schoolwork and homework. Okay. So the learning for learning sake and for fun was the Blue Machine by Helen Czerski, and this is a book, a book about the World Ocean.
[00:19:29] It's a. journey of physics and art and geography and just All rounded out by amazing storytelling. So yeah, it's this new genre I feel like I'm leaning into, like with the Invention of Nature, of this going beyond the textbook and reading this very like learning based book, but with great storytelling and it's just, it's quite entertaining while being very educational.
[00:19:54] And then the one that was, I feel, a little more purely educational and learning for a mission is Learning in Depth by Kieran Egan. I dove into this one for homeschooling and I acknowledge it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, especially as a holiday read. But I've become fascinated by this idea of learning in depth beyond just homeschooling my kids.
[00:20:18] And it's actually something I've recently written about on my new sub stack called Infinitely Interesting and that's over at shelleytonkinsmith. substack. com. So I feel this book has been quite pivotal in in my development and in like, you know, my new directions. So that's why I think I'm putting it as a favourite because I think it's been key to my development.
[00:20:43] Rowena: That is an awesome reason to choose a book to be a favorite. And I would say the sub stack that you've started, Infinitely Interesting, such a cool name, is brilliant. Anybody who is just interested in thought provoking conversations and hearing how Shelley's multi passionate brain works, make sure you go over and subscribe to her sub stack it is genuinely infinitely interesting.
[00:21:04] Shelley: Thank you so much. I'm having a lot of fun with it. And, and how about you, Ro? What's, what's your favourite non fiction read of 2024?
[00:21:14] Rowena: Well I figure since you said two, I'm going to be fine with saying two as well. So I'm actually going to say that I have a favorite author. So this year I've read quite a few books that have been by the same author in different things, so nonfiction and fiction. And in my nonfiction, I read two books by Amelia Nagoski.
[00:21:31] The book, Come As You Are and Come Together. So I'm going to say, maybe Amelia was my favorite author and both those books were brilliant and I loved them and they kind of two different things. changed my perspective out on a lot of things. Both were hugely educational and changed the way I thought about all sorts of things in relationships, personal identity, and sexuality in relationships, and all of that stuff as we age.
[00:21:54] So if I think about a book that might have had the biggest impact and the most learning in my life, they're going to share the gong for that one.
[00:22:02] Shelley: Interesting. Isn't that amazing of like, in choosing a favorite, we can choose favorites for different reasons. And I think for both of us, we've chosen books that have been quite formative for us, have actually changed the way we've thought about not just the topic, but I, you know, I think have even broadened our mind about humanity itself and the world itself.
[00:22:23] So I think those are, those are heavy hitters.
[00:22:25] Rowena: We're both on theme with that too, without even realizing.
[00:22:28] And, we didn't really plan that. So
[00:22:31] Shelley: So with that, now I'd love to know, what are you looking forward to reading? So which ones are you like, Oh yes, I want to dive into that one first.
[00:22:41] Rowena: Okay, so, Funny Story by Emily Henry, as I've already shared.
[00:22:45] We Solve Murders by Richard Osman. It's on reserve and I'm just waiting for it to become available at the library and I think it should be due any day now that I'll get that. So I'm very excited because it's a new series for him, so he's the writer of the Thursday Murder Club, and I loved all of those, and this is a new one, so a little murder mystery, bit of fun, fabulous. And in the non fiction camp, I'm waiting to see again, it's on reserve with the library, it's called The Healthy Hundred, 100 Ways to a Healthier Happier and Longer Life with Dr. Peter Larkins, and it's had rave reviews, so I'm looking forward to read that. Yeah,
[00:23:23] Shelley: And Ro, even though we've just been chatting about what we want to read over the summer, I know you're not the kind of person who waits for the holidays to read and I know you've always got at least one book on the go. So what are you reading right now?
[00:23:35] Rowena: Oh, well, I actually have got. Two books on the go right now. Um, But the one I will mention is called The Good Life Lessons from the World's Longest Study on Happiness by Robert Waldinger and Mark Schultz. So one of my very well read contacts on LinkedIn recommended this nonfiction read, The Good Life attempts to answer the following questions, what makes for a fulfilling and meaningful life?
[00:23:58] What Makes for a Good Life. And it's based on the findings from the 80 year long Harvard study of adult development. So spoiler alert, the truth revealed in this book, but it's not a big spoiler because they actually say it on the cover.
[00:24:10] The truth is that we've talked about a lot in the books that we've discussed here, is that the stronger our relationships, the more likely we are to live a happy, satisfying and overall healthier lives. So that didn't feel like a huge mic drop moment because I think it's pretty much consistent with what we've been saying in what we've learned from all the books we've talked about.
[00:24:30] Shelley: And I'm sure a lot of these books have referenced that study,
[00:24:34] right? A
[00:24:34] Rowena: Yes, they have, which is why I wanted to read it.
[00:24:37] Yeah,
[00:24:37] Shelley: It kind of completes
[00:24:38] Rowena: to study.
[00:24:39] Shelley: This completes
[00:24:40] the scientific picture of like all of that research that has been
[00:24:44] Rowena: Mm hmm.
[00:24:45] Shelley: Really fascinating.
[00:24:47] Rowena: And so Shelley, what are you looking forward to reading? And as before, it can be from your anti library or anything that you've got lined up.
[00:24:53] Shelley: Well, I told you about Storytime for Grownups. Faith has got a Christmas Spectacular lined up. She has done it with a lot of fanfare and just recently been revealed that over December, she is going to be reading A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.
[00:25:12] Rowena: Woohoo!
[00:25:12] Shelley: So yes, as I've mentioned, I've absolutely loved Storytime for Grownups.
[00:25:18] Before Pride and Prejudice, it was Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte. And so now I'm looking forward to December talking or listening to Christmas stories and ghost stories and Dickens. So yes, I, I've just found it all thoroughly delightful and I'm going to be listening to this one with my boys as well.
[00:25:37] I'm going to let them listen in and we'll cozy up in our very warm South African patio, you know, she, she always says brew a pot of tea and curl up in a cozy chair. I'm like, okay, let's sit out on the patio and, you know, keep out of the sun and get a cool something to drink. And we will be listening to Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol.
[00:25:59] Rowena: Fabulous. That is awesome. such a great story as well. And I think one that your boys are probably about the right age. I know that I took my older boy to see a play of it when he was probably about the same age as your eldest and he loved it. And I would also say, if anybody feels like the book and the whole thing is just a bit too serious, Google the Muppet version.
[00:26:22] There's a Muppet version of the Christmas Carol and I think it's got Michael Caine in it. Hands down, probably my favorite Christmas movie ever because it's got Muppets and Michael Caine. What could be better?
[00:26:33] Shelley: Excellent. I think we will have that as supplementary material.
[00:26:37] Okay, now Ro, asking for a friend. What is on your wish list? So, those books that you may be hoping to receive, or you're planning to buy for yourself, what's on that wish list?
[00:26:50] Rowena: Okay, so listen up family members. First is Hear One Moment by Leanne Moriarty. She's an Australian author, very famous around the world, a big, quite big in America. I love her stuff. I read Nearly all her books and that's one that's just been released and I'm looking forward to reading that one if I receive it or can get it through the library.
[00:27:10] Second one is Blue Sisters by Coco Melloz and I have heard great things and it's had rave reviews so I'm hoping that I might be able to get a copy through the library. When I last checked it was a six month wait so I'm not holding my breath that I'll get to that this summer. And then. Another Australian author is Rosalie Hamm and her book Molly, a prequel to The Dressmaker.
[00:27:33] Now, I loved The Dressmaker and The Dressmaker's Secret, two earlier books, so I'm definitely keen to read the prequel. And then my final one is How to Have an Epic Retirement by Bec Wilson. And yes, again, another Australian author, but this time a non fiction book. And it is aimed p articularly at people in their late forties and fifties who want to prepare for making the most of their retirement. And while she's Australian, and a lot of the focus is very specific to Australia, which is great because most of the content we get in this space is usually based out of America. And so not necessarily relevant.
[00:28:07] She does also have information in the book for UK and US audiences around what do they call it? A 401? Yeah, their retirement. Yeah, that's
[00:28:16] Shelley: 401ks, yes,
[00:28:18] Rowena: Yeah, those sorts of things. So in Australia, it's called superannuation. So we have a different scheme, which is why it's really exciting to have a book that is written specifically for an Australian audience with that in mind.
[00:28:28] So I'm thinking that I'd quite like to give that a read.
[00:28:31] Shelley: Yeah, that sounds very interesting. And I, I do think, as they say, you've got to look at this kind of stuff earlier rather than later. And we're now, you know, in our forties, like this is, it's time to start making plans and get a, get ahead and be proactive about having an epic retirement. It sounds awesome.
[00:28:49] I want it
[00:28:49] Rowena: Yeah, that's, that's pretty much what her message is actually, Shelley. You've summarized it beautifully,
[00:28:54] which is we get, if we start thinking about it in our forties, it means by the time we get to retirement, we will have it beautifully planned out and we'll know that we have enough money to be able to do all the things we want to do um, rather than waiting until it's a couple of years till we retire and then kind of panicking.
[00:29:10] So I'm excited to see how she puts it. She also has a sub stack like you. And so she puts out a couple of posts on that every week, and I've been enjoying those and. So I figured I'll check out her book
[00:29:21] Shelley: Wonderful. And wonderful to hear how you are supporting a wide range of Australian authors and lots of female Australian authors too, Ro. So walk in the talk
[00:29:32] Rowena: All females.
[00:29:34] Shelley: fantastic.
[00:29:36] Rowena: And so Shelley, what about you? What is on your wishlist for the summer?
[00:29:42] Shelley: Yeah, well, I feel like my wishlist is already also in my anti livery or on, on my husband, Garen's Kindle. So like he's read some books and we share an account so I can go, Oh yes, I'll read that. So, so some of those are Storm in a Teacup, also by Helen Czerski, who wrote The Blue Machine. So she's written The Physics of Everyday Life, and she talks The Storm in a Teacup is, is one of the kind of metaphors that, or images that she uses.
[00:30:11] Garen's currently reading Nexus by Yuval Noah Harari. So that we've got in our shared accounts and he's got so many mind blowing moments that he's sharing with me. So I think I'm going to have to read that one. Although he might be able to give me the commentary of the whole thing, cause we are talking about it quite a bit.
[00:30:30] And then going down my Kieran Egan rabbit hole. I've got his, his book, An Imaginative Approach to Education. He's all about bringing the imagination into education So yeah, it's on my wishlist, but I've kind of pre wished it, Ro. So kind of already bought it.
[00:30:48] Yes. Look at my manifest then.
[00:30:51] Rowena: Manifesting where you just buy it for yourself.
[00:30:54] Shelley: Yes,
[00:30:55] Rowena: yes.
[00:30:59] Shelley: I will say what is on my wishlist for the summer is a book called No More Simon Says by the author, Rowena Mabbott. So I'm so thrilled, Rowena, this is your, your second full length novel. You've published a bunch of short stories in between this one.
[00:31:17] Somehow, I don't know how but this is book two in your Single in Sydney Series. It says that, how do you say that fast? Single in Sydney series.
[00:31:29] Rowena: you don't say it fast because you get tongue tied. That's the whole point. We like alliteration, but not to say it fast.
[00:31:35] Shelley: Yeah, exactly. It makes you slow down. But I want to tell our listeners about what the story is about and what they can look forward to and what I can look forward to, because I've had a few tastes of the book, but now I get to read the whole thing. So, Penny Hunter is sure her boyfriend, Simon McDonald, is the one she'll marry, until he suddenly breaks up with her after discovering his father's infidelity. Heartbroken, Penny finds solace in her friends and starts to move on, even developing feelings for a new colleague. Meanwhile, Simon's reckless adventures lead to a near death experience, making him realise he wants Penny back. Now, Simon must prove he's worth a second chance, but Penny must decide if rekindling their romance is what she truly wants.
[00:32:24] So can Simon overcome his past mistakes? Will he win Penny back? Or is it too late? So I will be reading No More Simon Says to find out the answers to those questions.
[00:32:38] Rowena: Oh, thanks, Shelley. Yeah. I would love it if you read my book. And I will be intrigued to chat to you once you've done so, and hopefully hear that you enjoyed it because Penny is she appeared in the first book, Avoiding the Friend Zone as well as Kate's best friend. And now this is her story.
[00:32:55] Macdonnell because the Scots, there's a whole little section where Simon's dad. has a little bit of a moment where he's saying it's Macdonnell, not McDonnell. And
[00:33:06] Shelley: Oh,
[00:33:06] Rowena: gets quite funny about it
[00:33:07] Shelley: you see, that's the
[00:33:08] Rowena: he's in his, yeah, that's right. It's in his broad Scots accent. So if I was an audio book person, I'd be doing a great voice, but that's not my specialty.
[00:33:16] Shelley: I'm glad you, I'm glad you, said that because I do like to say the person's name in my head as I'm reading. So now I will be saying his name correctly in my head.
[00:33:24] Rowena: Lovely. I also like that your other books are once again, in line with your theme of exploration and education and diving deeply into understanding how things work. And I really love that because I'm sure it will lead to some very interesting conversations, both in your house with your husband and your boys, but I'm assuming with me as well.
[00:33:45] Shelley: Of course, and so we are going to be having those conversations of course, Rowena, in the future, but now we have some rather bittersweet news to share with our listeners. This episode, episode 60 of Two Booked Up is going to be our last episode of Two Booked Up, at least in this format.
[00:34:07] Rowena: But we are choosing to focus on the sweet part, not the bitter part. So we've reached some really happy milestones with this episode.
[00:34:17] Shelley: Yes, we've been podcasting for two and a half years, which I feel like in podcasting terms is a lifetime.
[00:34:24] Rowena: Yeah, it's long. We've also hit a very satisfying round number of 60 episodes.
[00:34:30] Shelley: We've completed four seasons.
[00:34:34] Rowena: And we've covered 18 books. And yes, we counted.
[00:34:39] Shelley: And I think we've probably referenced the four tendencies in approximately 59 of our 60 episodes.
[00:34:49] Rowena: Yeah, I think there was at least one episode where we didn't mention it. We could even potentially have made it for two, don't know. Okay. So Shelley, one of the other things we've always talked about on this podcast is living with intention about naming what matters, thanks to both Essentialism and Kendra Adachi and about reflecting on what we've achieved.
[00:35:10] So this is what we're doing. We're walking the talk and we've made the decision to tie a beautiful big bow around the Two Booked Up Podcast. It's just the right time for us to step back. And I am so grateful for the journey we've had together in podcasting. I've loved the books we've read, the discussions we've had, where we've taken the conversation further.
[00:35:29] And most of all. The connection with you and with our fabulous listeners. It has been such a fulfilling experience.
[00:35:37] Shelley: Rowena, it has been the best. I'm so proud of what we've achieved with Two Booked Up, and I've absolutely loved our recording sessions together. Rowena, you've been the best podcast host. co hosts to work with me in the show, and there is so much invisible work that goes into doing a podcast, and you keep us on track, you keep our social media ticking over, the promotions, that kind of thing, and it's just been the biggest pleasure to work with you.
[00:36:08] But that said, there is so much work involved in doing a podcast like this. And next year for me is shaping up to be a big one for my kids homeschooling. And so I've realized I need to create more space for. Supporting them. And in the process, I've actually been leaning back into those educational roots that you've heard me talk about in the show.
[00:36:32] It's actually what I originally studied and I've been experimenting with this new sub stack about home education and I'm also throwing in topics like creativity, music and learning, and even running a small business from home. It's still in this play stage right now, but it feels exciting to.
[00:36:50] Bringing so many of my passions into alignment. And so I've had to choose to make a bit of space for that too.
[00:36:57] Rowena: And that's such a perfect example of what we always say. Sometimes you have to make space for what matters most in the season that you're in. And speaking of exciting things, Shelley, I have to shout out your amazing knack for juggling so much at once, because maybe what the listeners don't know is that Even while we've been doing our podcast, you are basically full time homeschooling your kids.
[00:37:19] You run a copywriting business. You're experimenting with new ideas and still keeping your household running as well as being my fabulous supportive podcast co host. So I just want to shout out and say you are fairly phenomenal in all of that stuff. So thank you.
[00:37:35] Shelley: Well, thank you so much. And it goes right back at you, Ro. You have published another book, another full length novel this year, No More Simon Says. I'm just so amazed that you have been able to, yeah, keep all these plates spinning and just enjoy the process. So listeners, please go and check out No More Simon Says on Amazon.
[00:37:56] We forgot to mention, that's where you can get it. You can get it in hard copy and you can get it in digital copy.
[00:38:01] Rowena: It's actually on other platforms too. It's on Kobo and Barnes and Noble and Apple Books, and it'll be available through a few libraries, but that's apparently a slower process.
[00:38:11] Shelley: Okay. Awesome. So maybe even, maybe even go and request it at your library. Sometimes that speeds things along. But yeah, Ro, I've just been so impressed with how you've approached your writing process. And as I've already said, I've had that sneak peek of the book, but I'm so excited. I can't wait to read the whole thing.
[00:38:28] And yeah, I've just loved journeying with you in 2024 Through this podcast and through all the other things that we've had going on the side as well.
[00:38:37] Rowena: Lovely. And thank you. The writing has been such a rewarding creative project. And I really hope that some of our listeners turn into readers and they purchase it and dive into it as well. But now speaking of creative projects, we're not saying goodbye completely, Shelley, you and I, we just want everyone to know, Shelley and I are still going to be catching up, but there's no, as you can hear from Shelley's emotion and mine as well.
[00:39:00] There's no. Love lost here. Like we are still tight. We're still friends. We're still catching up. So while Two Booked Up is coming to a close, Shelley and I are still going to be meeting monthly for our Design Our Season accountability sessions. Um, And if you're wondering what that is, I've got a whole section on my website called Design Your Season.
[00:39:16] You can go check out the process that we use there. And it's one thing that we both always look forward to. It's our way of staying connected and intentional. So Shelley, I will be looking forward to those.
[00:39:25] Shelley: I will too, absolutely. Those just anchor me and those sessions go, all right, let's plan the season. Let's plan the month with a very beautiful, like, intentional way without that, like, kind of hard energy. All of the things we talk about on this, this podcast. So who knows, maybe Two Booked Up will evolve into something new down the line.
[00:39:48] For now, though, we are saying a very fond goodbye for now with. So much gratitude in our hearts for the experience that it's been.
[00:39:57] Rowena: So and also to our listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey, for reading along with us, letting us share our thoughts, sharing your thoughts engaging with us as we take our bookish tangents and as we throw occasional life lessons at you or what should we say with you? . So we hope that Two Booked Up has brought you some joy. Some reflection and maybe has even allowed some new favorite books to enter your life.
[00:40:24] Shelley: And I will just say that the Two Booked Up episodes that we've got will still be in your feed, so we're going to maintain that for at least another year, maybe even longer. The back catalogue will still be there, so if you're still enjoying Two Booked Up, it will be accessible to you, at least for the near future, but we just won't be publishing new episodes.
[00:40:45] Okay. And we said we would, we didn't have the bubbly, but we are going to cheers with our glass of water.
[00:40:51] Rowena: Yes, we'll choose with our
[00:40:53] Shelley: And we're podcasting after all, we need to keep the vocal cords lubricated. And we're going to say cheers, cheers to the next chapter, whatever it may be for all of us.
[00:41:04]
[00:41:05] Rowena: Yes. So speaking of next chapters, we're not actually done with this episode because We couldn't let this episode conclude without doing our Choose Your Own Adventure. And listeners, it is time for you to choose your own adventure. Shelley, can you give us a couple of options for actions that listeners could choose to take after this episode?
[00:41:25] Shelley: Yes, we couldn't end without doing our favourite feature. So option number one, check out your own anti library. Go and have a look on your Kindle. I've got a few sneaky ones that are bought on Kindle that I forgot about. Or your bookshelves. See what books you've purchased but have not read yet. No more need to feel any guilt.
[00:41:44] Go ahead and add them to a list that you're going to read over the summer holiday, see which ones you fancy.
[00:41:50] Rowena: Or just the holidays if you're in the Northern Ter if you're in the Northern Ter just the holiday period.
[00:41:56] Shelley: You know what? I am, I am happy to be getting my revenge because everyone always talks about it being cold. So now I am going to get my revenge. Southern Hemisphere Revenge. But option two is consider setting a theme for your season of reading. So for example, holiday settings, so like books set at Christmas or New Year's, or reading all the books in a series like the Penderwicks, or choosing a particular author like Amelia Nagoski.
[00:42:25] So that can maybe help guide that like vacuous TBR list or like, oh my goodness, what can I choose to read? Maybe thinking of a theme and framing your reading could be a fun way to do that.
[00:42:37] So we'd love to keep in touch with you. So if you'd like to do the same, here's your mission, should you choose to accept it. So option number one is to join Rowena's mailing list at RowenaMabbott. com. There's options to get onto Rowena's coaching content, that mailing list, to get her amazing free guide, to fall back in love with your Job, or you can go and get onto her specific author mailing list to hear about the next books that Rowena has got on the bill.
[00:43:09] Rowena: Yes. And option two, Please consider joining Shelley's mailing list on Substack. You can look her up at Shelley Tonkin Smith or search her publication, Infinitely Interesting for thought provoking content. And we know that could be tricky so that links are in the show notes.
[00:43:26] Shelley: And please don't forget about No More Simon Says, Rowena's new novel. It's out now in paperback and e book format. You can go and find that on her website. It's RowenaMabbott. com slash books. There you'll be able to get all the links to all the places you could buy it and go and grab your copy.
[00:43:43] That would be I would say that would be a perfect holiday read for the coming season. So friends, that is where we are going to wrap things up today. and for the foreseeable future. But really we would love to continue the bookish conversation.
[00:43:59] So again, connect with me at Shelley Tonkin Smith on Substack is going to be the best place to find me nowadays.
[00:44:06] And you can learn more about my copywriting business at shellysmithcreative. com. And Ro, one last reminder, where can listeners find you?
[00:44:15] Rowena: Now you can find me at Rowena Mabbott on Instagram, or as Shelley said, visit RowenaMabbott. com for everything about my coaching services, what I've been reading, my books and yes, including my brand new novel, No More Simon Says.
[00:44:28] And finally, Please remember to visit twobookedup. com for the show notes with the links to all the books we've mentioned, and there have been a lot in this episode, and if you can't remember what they were, just jump in the show notes, all the links and the authors will be there, which makes it super easy.
[00:44:43] I'm Rowena Mabbott, wishing you a wonderful holiday season full of amazing new books and plenty of time to relax and read them.
[00:44:52] Shelley: And I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith. And as we always say, keep reading, keep learning, and keep showing up for the things that matter most to you. Goodbye for now, friends. It's been such a pleasure.
[00:45:06] Rowena: Goodbye and thank you for everything.
