Episode Transcript
TBU Episode 57 Drive (Part 2) -- A Discussion about The Four Tendencies
[00:00:00] Shelley: Hello there, you're listening to Two Booked Up. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith, here with Rowena Mabbott, and today we've got a mini episode for you. Because while we were recording our last episode on Daniel Pink's book called Drive, The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, we had way too much to say. And we had an excellent sidebar conversation around Drive compared to some of the other books we've featured on Two Booked Up.
[00:00:33] One book in particular, right Rowena?
[00:00:36] Rowena: Absolutely. And Shelley's right. We had a lot to say about the book drive and we hope you enjoyed that episode. But today we wanted to have a little special sneaky peek chat about one extra book, which is our favorite book, the book we refer to nearly every episode, The Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin.
[00:00:54] Shelley: Yeah, so when I was re reading Drive, it occurred to me that this idea of intrinsic motivation may be at odds with the four tendencies, particularly the Obliger tendency, because Obligers don't respond well to internal expectations. So then I found myself wondering Could they be intrinsically motivated?
[00:01:17] So I put this question to Rowena and that got us chatting about not just The Four Tendencies but also a few more of the books that we've featured here on Two Booked Up and how they compare with Drive. So we thought it deserved its own episode, so here it is, a little cupcake sized episode of Two Booked Up.
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[00:01:43] Shelley: Welcome to Two Booked Up, I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith,
[00:01:46] Rowena: And I'm Rowena Mabbott. We're two well read best friends.
[00:01:50] Shelley: and now you are an honorary member of our book club. We're going to fast forward you to the mind blown and mic drop parts of those business and personal development books that are probably on your must read list.
[00:02:04] Rowena: Because, as busy, multi passionate working parents, we know how hard it is to find time to read. But we also know how much you love learning, growing, and making a difference in the world.
[00:02:15] Shelley: So treat yourself to a bit of bookish conversation, whether you've read the book or not.
[00:02:20] Rowena: With your two friends on Two Booked Up.
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[00:02:23] Shelley: Okay, so you Row, I think that wraps up Drive. At least we've scratched the surface, I hope people are feeling more intrinsically motivated. But now, can we just have a little sidebar before we go?
[00:02:43] Because as I was going through Drive. I was comparing it to one of our favorite books, The Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin. And I'm like, Hmm, what are the, what are the differences? Let's compare and contrast here. Because both of them, I feel focus on what causes us to act. And Gretchen's idea is, and her focus, is specifically on how we respond to expectations, or then what causes us to act based on expectations.
[00:03:14] And then of course she distinguishes between the four different groupings, Upholder, Obliger, Rebel, and Questioner, which you can go and listen to in episodes one to four. But now Daniel's focus is, is on these core intrinsic motivators that he asserts we all have and that drive us to sustain our behavior. But then I started to think, I'm like, okay, but now, can an obliger who resists Internal expectations. Can they be intrinsically motivated? So I've been thinking about this so much and I actually have come to the conclusion that yes, and the way I've done this is I've actually thought about an obliger I know very well.
[00:03:58] And an obliger does something because someone else is expecting them to do it, but they really are still very much driven by those three elements of internal motivation or intrinsic motivation, let's call it. Um, Autonomy, like maybe they know that their boss is expecting a job to be done and done on time, but then they do it in their own way and they bring their own skills and expertise and the tools they like using.
[00:04:26] They will still have a drive for mastery. And this Obliger that I know has a huge drive for mastery and doing a top notch job, top notch She loves it when colleagues or her boss tells her that she's done a good job, but there is something inside of her that wants to be top of the class. Um, so there's like some kind of external need, but there's an intrinsic drive of mastery.
[00:04:56] And then purpose, I think for an obliger, often their purpose could be tied to the expectations of others, but it's for The others benefit rather than that, rather than that person giving them an award or reward or some kind of recognition. It's, it's like, I'm doing this for my children or I'm doing it because, yeah, because I love this person perhaps.
[00:05:21] Um, and that purpose could be your people. So yeah, Ro, I'd just love to have this little sidebar chat with you and see, see what you think of how these two books, can they play nicely together? Um,
[00:05:35] Rowena: Yeah. Look, when you mention this, I think they can or could with some interpretation like you've just shared. As you say, one is a framework for expectations. The other is a discussion around what motivates us. Um, I would say from a psychological perspective, neither provide all the answers. Both are, both admit, well Gretchen's book certainly admits that it is just one way, one lens of looking at certain things.
[00:05:58] It's not the be all and end all. But I do think that together, and, you know, Um, dare I say, using guidance from some of the other books we've discussed, probably like Essentialism, Four Thousand Weeks, Time Management for Mortals. And maybe even from Strengths to Strength, our more recent book, we can probably pull together a better, more complete picture about how and why we do things and then how we use that knowledge to live a meaningful, purposeful life.
[00:06:27] Including having intrinsic motivation and autonomy and mastery and purpose and understanding our own approach to internal and external expectations around Obliger, Rebel, Upholder and Questioner. So all of using all of that information can then pull together something that means it contributes to greater self awareness, which means we can then have better knowledge about ourselves and how we interact with others, which will help us live a meaningful, purposeful life.
[00:06:55] That importantly, I think will also make us feel good otherwise it can feel pretty heavy. The idea of, oh, it's going to be a purposeful life or a meaningful life. It does have a connotation of being kind of, um,
[00:07:07] Shelley: like
[00:07:07] Rowena: old school.
[00:07:08] Yeah. And, or even like.
[00:07:10] Shelley: um,
[00:07:11] Rowena: Or even like old school Sunday school, you know, like it really kind of full on, you know, nothing against Sunday school, but it's got that kind of connotation of like, you've got to color in the lines and for some people that's great, but it doesn't necessarily have the freedom that many other people would prefer in order to have a life that makes them feel good.
[00:07:31] So yeah, that would be my, that would be my take that I think it's, it's part of a conversation, but not the whole of a conversation.
[00:07:38] Shelley: Yeah, I like that. Um, what you were saying there as well reminds me of what Kendra Adachi is really focusing on now with her, her book, The Plan is coming out now on the 8th of October. And she's very focused on compassionate time management and being kind to yourself and getting to know yourself.
[00:07:58] without judgment. And it's really just figuring out like, you know, all of these frameworks and ways of understanding ourselves and how we're motivated and that kind of thing are all just helpful for us to get to know ourselves. But we don't need to, we don't need to change the core of who we are. But rather with that self knowledge, we can move forward.
[00:08:19] And craft our environments and set ourselves up for success, knowing who we really are. So yeah, that's a nice little sidebar chat around, around a few books
[00:08:32] Rowena: Yeah, well, and I think we've even talked about this idea about kind of getting to know yourself in episode four, when we talk about going, taking yourself on a date and get to know yourself. So if you can, people can go back and listen to our back catalog and find some more insights about that too.
[00:08:49] Shelley: Yes, yes. So important, that self knowledge.
[00:08:52] Rowena: So I think that's where we're going to wrap it up for our mini episode, Shelley. It's been a fabulous sidebar conversation. And we're just going to remind listeners to connect with us. Let's continue the conversation.
[00:09:04] You can find me at Rowena Mabbott on Instagram. I'm also on LinkedIn. Just search Rowena Mabbott. And you can always visit RowenaMabbott. com for all the information about my coaching services, the novels I've published, the books I've been reading, and any resources to support you in harnessing your strengths to live with more clarity and confidence.
[00:09:24] And Shelley, where can listeners find you?
[00:09:26] Shelley: you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith over there, and you can learn more about my copywriting services and resources for online service providers and educators@shellysmithcreative.com. That's also where you can find or my resources on copywriting, using AI tools effectively and finding the right tech tools for your websites and online home
[00:09:51] Rowena: And of course, please remember to visit twobookedup. com for show notes with links to the books we've mentioned and to download the 24 for 2024 reading challenge PDF for free. In our next episode, we're going to be sharing how we're tracking with the challenge. And so you'll want to listen to that to hear, have we made it?
[00:10:10] Have we completed 24 books? Where are we and what have we been reading?
[00:10:15] Shelley: I think the question is, has Shelly managed to make it? We know you've made it. Rowena, , am I spoiling things? Maybe I am, but I think that one's a no-brainer. Well, everyone, thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to two Booked Up. I'm Shelley Tonkin Smith.
[00:10:34] Rowena: And I'm Rowena Mabbott. We'll see you in two weeks time for another episode of Two Booked Up.
